Bad News for those Injured in Car Accidents
Settlements with ICBC to compensate for pain and suffering are ending. The BC NDP has created laws to prevent innocent victims of car accidents obtaining compensation for these losses. The current government have extinguished individual rights in favour of increasing the powers of the auto monopoly ICBC.
In 2019, ICBC resolved about 24,000 injury claims. Most resulted in total awards or settlements of $100,000 or less. In 72 percent of those cases, the claimant’s case expenses were less than 6% of the settlement.
For accidents after April 1, 2019 and before May 1, 2021 the NDP created a cap of $5,600. The Minor Injury Laws describe serious and life altering injury as “minor”. This to give ICBC special treatment in the court system. Every injury, no matter how serious, is deemed minor unless the claimants can prove otherwise. The new reality is that these claimants can no longer obtain lawyers to assist in their claims. The low and arbitrary awards display the complete failure of this system to compensation innocent victims fairly.
For the injured party, not only are they denied a recovery appropriate to their pain and suffering, but, because they often do not bother to seek legal help, they deal with the indirect consequences of their injuries alone and without adequate information. ( The Society Record, Page 12)
Pain and Suffering Compensation for Accidents After May 1, 2021
Compensation for pain and suffering has virtually been eliminated by the BC NDP effective May 1, 2021. Innocent victims of car accidents can longer sue the guilty driver unless the police decide to lay criminal charges. When the law in British Columbia did allow proper compensation to victims the Supreme Court of Canada held that an award for pain and suffering cannot be inordinately high, low or disproportionate to the circumstances of the case.
The Future of ICBC Injury Claim Settlements
Christopher Ryan, director of claims strategy and programs for ICBC, confirmed that in the first nine months of ICBC’s fiscal year ending in March 2022, the average amount of settlement or judgment was approximately $100,000. The final amount of a settlement or judgment is not easily predictable. The Attorney General David Eby acknowledged that his illegal legislation required claimants to abandon legitimate claims. Mr. Eby tried to limit awards on costs to prevent claimants from receiving desperately needed funds.
Caps and the elimination of compensation for pain and suffering brought in by the NDP is inconsistent with our democratic principles supporting and promoting pain free life. Our current NDP injury claim system will not put a patient back to where they were before the injury and leaves the innocent to pay for the misbehavior of guilty drivers. Our sense of accountability as a community has already begun its decline.
Many personal injury lawyers cannot take cases for car accident after May 1, 2021. Simply put, a lawyer can do nothing when the right to seek fair compensation has been eliminated by legislation. Although these laws are being challenged, the injured are now being left behind. The loss of individual rights means that 2022 marks the first full year in which quality of life has been given no value by our government.
I was rear-ended ended by an impaired driver in June, 2022. I had stopped to turn left and the driver of a pick up truck towing a large camper trailer slammed into my car. The other driver was arrested at the scene. I suffered a back injury and my car was a write off. My life has been seriously disrupted and dealing with ICBC has been very stressful. I feel like I have to fight for everything except my physiotherapy treatment. I have no recourse with any of their decisions. I’m presently disputing the amount they’re offering to pay out for my car (craziness with the way the current car market is!). This no fault insurance has taken away the accident victims rights!
I also was hit by an impaired driver, his license was taken away for 3 months on the spot and it wasn’t the first time. I can’t handle driving now, doc told me not to , and it’s my career so that’s not too good for my future. My future income prospects for my chosen career have changed completely
ICBC say they will top up medical ei to 90% Of my wage because I’m off work now.
It was over 2 weeks ago and I haven’t even heard what happened to my car which will be a write off, airbags and totalled really
I am at a loss in so many ways right now. I was struck in a roundabout by a car exiting the highway and not yielding to that roundabout. My car I believe is right off but I don’t know yet because it has taken so long. I’m still waiting after two weeks. My car is semi driveable but parts are falling off as I drive. I have a ratchet strap holding the hood down. Even if I CBC declares my car as towable. They can’t do that for six or eight weeks. So the car would have to stay in my driveway. ?
I had a total knee replacement in February 2022. My knee is now injured but not damaged. I am in a lot of pain. My shoulders, back and arms are stiff and painful. My doctor believes I have a concussion.
I’ve had a long interview with the ICBC CARE team regarding my recovery. They definitely overstepped their medical and personal bounds during this conversation. Nobody should be telling me what I can or should be able to do physically or emotionally except my personal physician or the people that she recommends to me for therapy.
So here I sit..a fully insured driver except for loss of use on my vehicle which is my own decision with no viable vehicle (Because I CBC hasn’t been able to determine liability yet) When it is determined the other drivers fault I will have access to a paid car rental.
Physiotherapy and massage therapy have been made available to me through ICBC That is great. But it doesn’t change the fact that I don’t have a vehicle to drive to get to those appointments. That I am in pain and that I am struggling through this. It’s just all wrong
I was in a head on collision besides being very banged up and a cracked sternum i was declared 100 not at fault my car im sure is a write off all 6 airbags came out i was in the trama unit at the hospital for 5 to 6 hrs i get a call from icbc they offered rehab but there is no rehab for a cracked sternum i was also told you get zero payout for injuries the other driver got a ticket I was also told u can not sue the other driver how is this right i am suffering not able to get a fullbreath of air not able to get dressed or undressed need help out of bed this is so not right if your not at fault u should get a payout cause the guity party gets off scott free with no accountability they will do it again one very unhappy customer going private insurance next
I was also rear ended at a stop light June 30th, 2022 in Terrace BC. The driver looked like he was impaired and strung out but the RCMP in Terrace, BC was too lazy write up a report or arrest him. The RCMP gave me a fake report number and let the driver go. I continue to suffer from my injuries and I read that whiplashes worsens over time and there will be long term damage. The driver said it was because he had bad breaks but the RCMP let him drive away???? I am depressed due to the impacts of injuries and it’s disgusting these irresponsible drivers can get away with this while we suffer and try to put our life back together, which will never be the same. We need to change the laws and I am hoping we have a lawyer who is able to start a claim with us, just incase laws change with new government.
The ICBC No-Fault laws brought in by the NDP discriminate against disabled and injured people, in my opinion. The provincial legislature came into effect on May 1, 2021. A legal challenge has been launched to the “no-fault” Enhanced Care program of ICBC. Unfortunately for you, people injured in a motor vehicle accidents after May 1, 2021 lost the right to take a guilty driver to court, except in cases where the driver is charged AND convicted of a criminal offence. Because the police did not charge the other driver your case will be captured by these new laws. Until the law is overturned or withdrawn there is not much the lawyers can do to assist people in your situation. I do not speak for the legal community at large and other lawyers may have differing opinions. Please let your MLA know how unfair these ICBC laws are to innocent victims like you.
Hello as a fellow crash victim rear ended by tandem dump truck we need to change these laws,over 40yrs safe driving and a single adult with a mortgage it has literally changed my life in so many ways,6 months earlier I paid 5yr car loan off and had that extra cash to now have another 6 yrs of car payments,huge hug to those others in my shoes,it is just not right,icbc will give huge bonuses to staff at Christmas time I’m sure lol 😀 😊 hang in there
It doesn’t do any good to contact my local MLA. I was rear ended at a red light. My car a total write off. I have damage to my spine. But at least the other driver is well and back to work. This no fault has made it possible for bad drivers to drive as they please.
ICBC is judge and jury. And we the accident victim are left to defend ourselves.
My son was walking to work August 17th 2022. Crossing at the crosswalk a driver turns right at the intersection and hits him and his co-worker . He suffered injuries to his leg which was run over . He and his coworker have not returned to work : he is waiting for an mri to ensure all his ligaments are in tack ; major damage from the knee down . This law is unfair to the injured and allows others to drive as they please absolutely no accountability to the driver . How roads are not safe
I was hit with my 12 yr old daughter while passing a car when the lady didn’t look and decided to gun it to the left onto a side road and hit the passenger side door where my daughter was and have glass fly across us and it sent the car flying off the right side airborne into the ditch and we luckily survived. My daughter is physically ok thank god but psychologically not. I am in so much pain and it took over a month for icbc to pay me for my car and my adjuster is so rude to me every time he talks to me for no reason as if it was my fault. I started my own business 4 months before this happened so they deemed this as not eligible to be paid wage loss so I am suffering and struggling financially due to this. Yes they pay for massage and physio but I have another child with autism that needs 24 hr care and I can’t even look after him properly. I have to have my sister here helping me 24/7 and live with me since this happened to help me with everything. Not being able to sue the other driver isn’t fair. Especially when my adjuster treats me the way he does. Telling me im not trying hard enough to get better when I’m actual fact I’m doing everything I possibly can to. They need to change this no fault back to how it was before so those of us who are victims can get what we deserve
They are horrible corruption against the innocent. It needs to stop . These people adjusters cause stress and rudeness and stick together. Not a nice corporation.
On June 27th 2021, a prohibited driver ran a stop sign which caused me to hit the drivers side behind the back tire. I had a few witnesses and they said the driver switched seats with the passenger because he had no license. They proved liability and the prohibited driver was charged. My icbc injury person said I wouldn’t get a pay out unless he was charged. I also still had UMP until July 4rd 2021 and I read that UMP as still in play until my insurance expired. ICBC is still refusing me a pay out when the person was charged. I have permanent neck pain and I’m a professional driver so I can’t afford to not be able to move properly. ICBC has made bad drivers remain bad drivers because they have nothing to lose. As I read earlier, it’s not fair to innocent victims.
I was a passenger in a car accident driver rear ended someone hard. I reached down to save my 6 pound dog it was just a reflex to save him, I am 63 senior my right arm and neck were badly hurt. I have balance problems and was basically home bound living on the 20th floor with the heat made life so difficult. They have given me massage and Phiso which with my retirement plan I already had unlimited coverage. They want all information scanned and emailed to a Car Manager in Kamloops I live in Vancouver. I dont have a printer but they wont take paper copies, Not to mention its hard to write with my right hand. I had employment that I could not do because of the injury they refused to compensate as I did not have a contract before accident. What retiree who takes occasional part time work has exciting contacts my prospective employer even sent them a letter. I am in to much pain and my independence gone to even argue the point at present . This is when one needs a lawyer so all of a sudden you are a VICTIM
I was in a car accident on July 27 2021 .The driver hits me on the back my car that strong that my car got a motorcycle sucked in.In a previous year I had been in another car accident in Alberta almost a year .My all the injuries return in doubles.ICBC get me money back for my old car and paying for my treatment but I think that those who have been injured in the accidents should write petition to the Government of BC to change the rules.I am ON !!!!
My husband was hit by a car in a pedestrian crosswalk with the lights flashing. He had many close calls to death as he had complications during surgery. And went to Victoria hosp twice. Once right after the accident, he came home to the hospital in Campbell River, and then he again had to go back down to hosp in Victoria as to more complications. He ended up being hospitalized for over 10 Wks and there is no coverage for pain and suffering. I think there must be some kind of compensation for this ordeal.
The car hit me while crossing the street on 20 NOV 2022.I was already halfway through and the car turned left but did not stop.My body got hurt, especially my hip and right leg and right rib bone cracked.The driver asked “Are u ok?” only 2 times and let me walk back home.I applied mantyo bs before the accident and at least 3 places asked me for an interview.So I lost all the chances to get the jobs and I could not claim EI.ICBC will Claim me for my last income12 months before an accident. But I went back to my country for 4 months. My income this year is around 6000.So I might get money around $100 per month!!!How can I live? It also made me break up with my boyfriend. I might be homeless soon.
I got hurt and have to use my savings now. I never slept well after that accident. If I die on that night it would be better to have a hard time right now.
I never thought Canadian government insurance was treating people worse than third countries.
I had a terrible accident in August, 2022. I had a solid green light on a highway where the speed limit was 80 km/h, and I was going straight. Some lady (From California, USA) took an illegal u-turn and I bashed straight on into her. Although she was deemed to be at fault for the accident, ICBC has been zero help to me. Not only was my car totalled, but I have cancelled my insurance and they keep charging me for it every month (Have not driven since my accident). I am suffering from a severe concussion (to this day), neck injury, upper back and shoulders injuries, right arm, and right leg injuries. My walking has slowed and is suffering, I cannot go to school or work because of the concussion, cant drive, or even watch tv for more than about 15 minutes, following a break for at least 3-4 hours. Constant headaches, and pain all over. It has been over four months, and I am still suffering severely. ICBC is not helping me at all or allowing me to sue the other party (Which is from an entirely different country). The new insurance policy is very unfair, and is allowing bad drivers an excuse to continue driving recklessly. It is a complete mockery of the democratic system and is completely unfair to anybody and everybody who is injured.
My son was in tryouts for junior hockey in August 2022 when someone ran a stop sign causing him to crash. He held on for dear life upon impact and he his had severe wrist pain ever since. He has not be able to play hockey or work out since which was his passion and commitment. There were witnesses and the other driver was deemed 100% at fault. He is having a very difficult time even working 5 months later.
I was rear ended at a stop light at the end of November. I was hit so hard I hit the person in front of me. I was far enough back I have 0% liability. I now have a fractured vertebrae, and am off work for min 6weeks. I still have damage/pain/regular numbness on majority right side. I am terrified what this means for my future as I am not young and nearing retirement. My income puts me in low income as I lost hours after returning to work from 6 month pandemic layoff.
ICBC is nothing more than a criminal organization they accuse me falsely of giving false information with zero evidence to back it up I was involved in a hit-and-run they took off my car was a write off I have received zero compensation for the car they are not repairing it they’re not paying me anything I have received zero compensation for my injuries I have received zero compensation for my lost wages I filed a lawsuit against them but I don’t have a lawyer because no lawyer wants to take it cause there’s no money in it for them which I totally understand but man the world is fucked
Got into accident nov2022, got rear ended after turning left in the high way.
Got whiplash and now im suffering for pain, i develop a lump on the middle of my back idont know what it it, but its painful and it makes me sleep 2-4 hrs a night because of pain
This new law in icbc brought by ndp. Should be voted out of government, never again vote for NDP, this is corrupt people, they dont want to pay for victims, because they putting it in their pockets, i guarantee that not all the money they get they putting back towards physio, car repair or extended benefits.
Im sure half of it was going to each of NDP officials. Corrupt as fck.
I can see I’m in for a battle I was in an accident Dec 6 in jasper I’m sure they are trying to say it’s my fault there was a semi who stopped during white conditions with all his lights covered in snow I was the third or forth car involved in a seven car pile up even another semi driver pulled over to give a statement tho rcmp about the causes but i have not herd a word from icbc I have no idea if my truck is getting repaired or is a write off after countless attempts to contact them what a gong show
I was involved in a bike/ car accident September 2022. I was left on the road for forty minutes on downtown Eastside. Waiting fir the ambulance. No police showed up as they are too busy dealing with drug addiction crime. The woman that opened her door was never charged because of no police . She never reported the accident so technically a hit and run. Property sude if claim basically called me a liar and said I will not recieve a penny for my bike which remained on scene as no cops showed up. I suffered a severely broken pelvis requiring major surgery with three large screws holding it together. I was told I will need a new hip in 5 years because of this accident. I have been told the best I can hope for is 80% recovery. I also broke my arm and will also get back maybe 80% function. Just to round it out I also broke three ribs. Thus was almost 4 months ago. I have received no financial help and being self employed they have put up so many walls I will likely see nothing other than some physio a bath seat and a cane. I consider David Eby a traitor and icbc a corrupt and evil corporation that needs to be dismantled and everyone involved fired and thrown I’m prison.
I was riding my Harley Davidson when this guy hit me head on in my lane doing an illegal u turn, shattering my leg and damaging the entire left side of my body including broken teeth. it took 4 months for icbc to return my calls and emails. its going on 7 months and I’m just starting to walk again. my beautiful bike is wrote off, as I am not able to kneel for any length of time there goes my 30+ year welding carear. 7 months now bank account depleted, I have received $200. from icbc and the only person that is being protected is the guy that created the accident. where is my justice. this is what you get to look forward to after religiously paying my icbc premiums for over 35 years. icbc has more or less told me that its ok to run someone over, crippling or killing and as long as your sorry they will protect you. So in short enjoy your “cheap” insurance because when you really need it they will turn there back on you and there is nothing you can do.
I was also injured because a vehicle going highway speed was driven into my vehicle, while I was stopped at a stop sign. 100% his fault. My daughter was in the vehicle and is traumatized. A police man arrived but was called away immediately and took no statement or performed no drug or alcohol test. I have had my life taken away as a result, with no recourse. I am in excruciating pain and have been unable to stand up for more than a couple of minutes at a time since. I have no interest in living like this. I could not care less about coverage for a physio appointment. I want my life back so I can be a father to my child and a partner to my wife. There are no longer consequences for incompetent and dangerous driving and we are already seeing an increase in injuries and fatalities since this new policy was implemented. It’s dangerous. This is money taking precedence over human life. This law forces me and my family to pay for someone else’s incompetence and mistakes? How is this even legal? This law makes no sense.
I was rear ended on Valentine’s Day.
Just caught site of the car that hit me In My rear view mirror so my head was turned chiropractor says if my head was straight it would not be a problem but as it is I “May make a full recovery “
This system is horrible I’m in constant pain and the idea that no one will ever receive compensation for lost quality of life seems insane.
We are turning into a third world banana republic.
ICBC and the NDP need to be scrapped.
I voted NDP.
My wife and I were hit by a car recently while walking home in Tsawwassen. I have a broken back, whiplash, and a huge lump on my ass. My wife is going for emergency surgery today( a week and a half after the accident), to repair badly broken elbow and broken hand. As we are both Seniors recovery will be long especially for my wife. The driver took one hundred per cent responsibility, we forgive him. ICBC took away our right to seek compensation for our pain and suffering we can never forgive them. Oh well two more victims more money saved by ICBC. Christmas bonuses are looking good.
It’s pretty sad to read all these comments. I myself was in a head on collision with a 5 ton truck in 2022. The driver crossed a double solid yellow line coming out of a bend. I’m happy to be alive, but 5 months later still deal with the aftermath, not just physical but mentally as well. He got a ticket, aww poor guy!!
This is just so wrong!
A change in Government party leader to Conservative party is essential if there’s any hope to be had
July 9, 2021 is when I was hit. I was stopped at a crosswalk and an older driver in a pickup came down the hill behind me and did not slow down or stop.
I was in a smart car, so the roll cage design saved me from breaks and lacerations, but the lack of crumple zones meant the energy transfer wreaked havok on my nervous system and soft tissue.
They pay me 90% of my wage I was earning at the time, but there’s been no fair increase to compensate for our cost of living and economy concerns this past year, so my savings have been eroded. There’s been additional stress because they often forget to pay me, sometimes upwards of over a month, and they ignore my emails and requests for help.
My care team is paid directly by them, and thankfully the folks at Driftwood Wellness kept on treating me even when ICBC neglected to pay them as well. Other patients of different clinics haven’t been so lucky.
I have all sorts of pain and range of movement issues, my nervous system is on fire all the time. I live in pain every day, it’s exhausting, and I lost my career that I was in love with.
This isn’t even about money right now, it’s about survival. I have maybe two months left before I face financial crisis because of this, and I don’t know what to do about this pain and the dark thoughts that go hand in hand with them. It’s hard to relax and focus on healing when your designated ICBC
agent and their manager don’t pay you, ignore your emails and phone calls, and you’re left on your own wondering what comes next.
I thought we were better than this.
On June 18,2023 I was on my way to the hospital to work at 430 am. I saw a car pulled over on the side of the road and as I drove by the 16 years old learner with no supervision intoxicated and drunk decided to pull out and hit me. They needed the jaws of life to pry me from the car. He took no liability when hitting me. This no fault accident through Icbc is crap!!! Here I sit with a brain injury and on bed rest for two weeks with swelling on my brain, I’ll never lead a normal life and faulted me 50/50 in the accident because of no witnesses, no webcam and lack of evidence. This is crap!! I’ve lost my whole life and dignity now because of this no fault crap law. My only hope is if the rcmp charge this lil brat that decided to take mom and dad’s vehicle out for a joyride.
If your accident involved a hit-and-run or uninsured driver, a motorcycle accident lawyers can help you explore your options for recovering compensation. This may include pursuing a personal injury lawsuit, filing a claim with your own insurance company, or seeking compensation from other liable parties.
Wow, I’m so discouraged. I was in a head in collision with a drunk driver on Friday June 30th with a drunk driver. I was taken from my totalled car by ambulance and the impaired driver was I believe arrested but no one will even tell me what happened to them.
My knee is badly broken and I’m in excruciating pain. All this news is so very depressing and with what you all say I feel that my life will never be the same.
I can’t even close my eyes without seeing the moment of the crash.
It is over a year that I am under medical treatment for a car accident which other party was at fault. Out of work
and in a huge debt, today I just learned that there is no compensations for the victims of the driving accidents since the early 2002, because of a new legislation. I was going to write my story in details in this comment but when I read the other comments, I notice that what needs to be said have been said. I only add that this government’s is beginning to resemble that of North Korea’s government with no regards for individuals rights, specially for the victims.
I was hit by a car on my bicycle on May 5th 2023 I was hit on a one was stop whereas traffic coming in the path of this car , I proceeded to go through the intersection and I heard a laud engine noise and the lady spun of hitting me on jer driver’s side and knocked me down, I end up in ER for 10hours , I was just told by icbc that I am 100% at fault which is not right especially when the driver of the vehicle is supposed to stop proceeded when safe to do so?! I am still lots of pain and I have been putting my life on hold, it’s not fair to be ruined for the rest of my life
I was hit by a car as a pedestrian ,on a crosswalk, during the walk signal, when I was in the middle of the sidewalk and had established full right of way. The car was turning left and hit me from behind. I slid ten feet due to impact, my face was bloody and I banged my head on the pavement. After four weeks I’ve started getting headaches every other day. I work from home and thought I felt okay enough to go back to work which was an absolute mistake. I was not okay and certainly not thinking straight. ICBC took away my adjustors because I was back at work and this has made it incredibly difficult to get health coverage for my concussion symptoms, such as going to see a doctor prescribed optometrist because my eyes are all wonky from the impact. The headaches have made me take days to week long breaks from work and ICBC will not cover the expenses lost. They also wont fully cover many of the appointments and expect you to pay the difference. I have been physically, emotionally , and financially beaten up for simply following the rules of the road. If it is fine for a car to ram me when I have full right of way, how am I suppose to cross the street? How do I fight for myself against ICBC when I’m barely functioning? How does this affect children and seniors who are even more vulnerable than me on the road? This new law just creates fear, injustice, and removes any sense of safety on the roads.
My husband was riding his e-bike well within the shoulder lane heading south on a major highway. It was a warm August day in 2023. An older model truck, going 80K, strayed over the yellow line and collided with him and the bike, throwing him well over 100ft. He never fully regained consciousness and died 2 and a half weeks later, having suffered horrendous injuries. The other driver is 100 % at fault, but will face no other consequences than a ticket, maybe a fine, maybe a review of his driving abilities
My husband had his life stolen and endured horrible suffering.so awful to witness. I lost my partner of more than 33 years. I cannot sue the other driver under the current rules , because he has not been charged with a criminal offense ( would also have to be found guilty before ICBC would pay ). His life was valued at $72,000.00 plus change. for what ICBC calls a “death benefit”, determined arbitrarily by the person’s age and employment status at time of death. If he had survived, he would have required round the clock advanced nursing care. Every cost or need would have had to be constantly negotiated and justified to an an individual adjustor, who would have the authority to override the professionals if it was their personal opinion that said treatment wasn’t necessary. No one actually representing the person’s needs. Such a conflict of interest!!
I stopped at a crosswalk and was rear-ended in 2019. There were kids about to come on the road. They’re trying to blame me for part, other driver saying she didn’t see flashing lights, and that i suddenly slammed on the brakes. Has anyone ever been found at fault for an accident this way???
Rear-end Collisions almost always draws Inference of negligence against Rear ending Driver. Read our blog: https://holnessandsmall.com/2017/02/17/rear-end-collision-draws-inference-of-negligence-against-rear-ending-driver/
ICBC is now a malevolent entity run by a morally bankrupt provincial government . Repair the vehicle but screw the affected accident victim is their motto.
I was involved in two motor vehicles accident one was hit from side second was rear end 5 months apart icbc treating them as 1 accident even though u have different injuries from the two I am unable to do my full time job as industrial pipefitter and injury don’t work well together ,icbc insurance wants you to apply for ei insurance and or disability benefits which are a run around to get as well why do other government agencies need to be involved when I cannot work due to car accident is what I need to understand
I was struck on a crosswalk by a truck making a left turn whose driver “just didn’t see” me. I have to use the personal health days and dental benefits provided by my employer, which I know I am fortunate to have, to support me in my recovery. There is three quarters of the year left, if I get sick and need time off work down the line I will have to take it unpaid and if I need any dental treatment it will be out of pocket! How can this be right? I have been in significant pain with broken bones, limited mobility, loss of independence and great suffering while the driver receives what? A fine and a couple of points on their license? Unbelievable.